Curse

infymys · Dec 28, 2006, 01:01 AM // 01:01

It is obvious that it has dawned on Anet that there is a serious problem with the current state of Tombs/HA otherwise a representative wouldn't have started this thread.

With that said....

-8v8: The only complaints I've seen about it were rank discrimination and the call for nerfing overpowered skills. There was no "I can't do sh!t with 8 people! Let's make it 12v12 like Alliance battles!" Or, "Please lower the party numbers to something like RA/TA because I can't make a group!"

-6v6: How many threads have we've seen regarding this? Far too many to count. And by the look of things, the cons far outweigh the pros. One of the things I've noticed is that Burial Mounds was taken out of the rotation because someone from Anet knew that 6v6 wouldn't be viable. And the hour long matches we now see in Underworld, Scarred Earth, etc. would become even longer if Burial Mounds was left in the rotation. Somebody knew that 6v6 was flawed and yet they implemented it anyways because they thought everybody loved it (for the 6v6 part) during the double fame weekend when we all know it was because of said double fame.

As far as I can tell, the consensus is to reimplement 8v8. And I for one, am part of this consensus.

caffine addict · Dec 28, 2006, 01:06 AM // 01:06

if alters where like alliance battles and you had to stay in a large group in the center, i see sig of judgement/healing spring monks winning for a long time

Lorekeeper · Dec 28, 2006, 01:06 AM // 01:06

i feel like most of the important points have been put across... and they been put across by many different people of many different experiences. So i think Gaile can extract some good input from this thread... thats not to say we still cant keep adding more suggestions and ideas!

What i wish... and have wished for for a long time. Is that we can recieve some feedback or some sort of... information... regarding what thought processes the developers are going through regarding this isssue.

I know you have beta testers etc who are there for that very reason... but the best way for the community of players and the developers to work as a team is for there to be more transparency and integration.

I understand that you might be wary of sharing information about stuff that you guys arent 100% sure about yet... and i dunno how much of an expert i am on PR... but i feel that i as a player would be best able to provide intelligent feedback if i was given some more information about the following

*what problems do you identify with HA currently?
*to what extent are you thinking of changing HA?
*is it a matter of the size of the teams?
*is it a matter of the maps?
*is it the metagame and the skill balance?
*is it the mechanics behind the maps like altar matches?

most importantly

*what measures/solutions are currently being discussed?

im not trying to sound unappreciative of the chance you have given to the people on all the fan forums to provide some input. I am really glad for this chance.

but i find it really frustrating that the only clue im given to form my suggestions around is the fact that the designers are thinking of other changes.

let us help you! we obviously want this game to reach its potential!

Tiyuri · Dec 28, 2006, 01:15 AM // 01:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by caffine addict

if alters where like alliance battles and you had to stay in a large group in the center, i see sig of judgement/healing spring monks winning for a long time

Nah, the area you have to stand in to be considered influencing the alter could be huge.

not only that, signet of judge blabla has to kill you to cap, just like you have to kill them to cap. If you cant kill them and they can kill you, they're going to win on any gametype, including annihilation.

Phoenix Ex · Dec 28, 2006, 01:25 AM // 01:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tiyuri

There are a whole bunch of other threads out there for people to cry about rank elitism in.

Fact is if you can't find a group, you're doing something wrong. I don't need rank to get into a rank 9+ team, I have the experience to talk and hold myself the right way, I could just lead one if I couldn't get into one as well. If you can't do this, you have no place in that group anyway.

Leave this thread on topic, it's about improving HA, not about whining that you don't have the drive to get yourself some rank, HA was high level pvp, if you wanted stroll in stroll out PVP, RA is for you.

And good job suggesting anyone with a rank has no life, no wonder you have no team :/

Actually my guild does plenty of HA and I am ranked, thank you very much. The MAIN point of my post if I ain't clear....is that there are zero incentives for new people to try HA nowadays considering the extremely lowered population. And as a result the R9++ just stands out THAT much more and causing more new people to leave. And yes those people that actually pug ranked groups gives off an attitude that just screams "no-life" (I don't consider people who come up to me and flash their tiger when I am forming an unranked group polite for that matter)

And its extremely concerning that I go into HA I see absolutely NO unranked team forming at all, the district has people, but there are like 3 groups forming and those are all ranked. And when I form a group myself, ranked people that joined/I invited demands that I make my group ranked.

It just shows that the new player population are dwindling, and I find that is a bigger problem than most other things.

Tiyuri · Dec 28, 2006, 01:31 AM // 01:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phoenix Ex

Actually my guild does plenty of HA and I am ranked, thank you very much. The MAIN point of my post if I ain't clear....is that there are zero incentives for new people to try HA nowadays considering the extremely lowered population. And as a result the R9++ just stands out THAT much more and causing more new people to leave. And yes those people that actually pug ranked groups gives off an attitude that just screams "no-life" (I don't consider people who come up to me and flash their tiger when I am forming an unranked group polite for that matter)

And its extremely concerning that I go into HA I see absolutely NO unranked team forming at all, the district has people, but there are like 3 groups forming and those are all ranked. And when I form a group myself, ranked people that joined/I invited demands that I make my group ranked.

It just shows that the new player population are dwindling, and I find that is a bigger problem than most other things.

Or maybe, just maybe, the unranked players who have the competence to actually play HA properly, become ranked very very quickly.

-_-

Gimme Money Plzkthx · Dec 28, 2006, 01:52 AM // 01:52

@phoenix ex. I visited HA (or the lack thereof) today just for kicks. There was one r9+ group, and the remaining groups (which there weren't many for obvious reasons) were r3/4+ or r0+. There are probably more new players playing HA than ever.

.defekt · Dec 28, 2006, 02:12 AM // 02:12

Gimme Money is right.

There are more new players because 6v6 allows for quicker team creation. Anyways, most of the groups you see in HA these days are guild groups.

Yunas Ele · Dec 28, 2006, 02:23 AM // 02:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nurse With Wound

This is compleatly untrue. I, or ANYONE from my guildies, who also posted in this thread NEVER complained about IWAY or other builds. Please, stop generalizing, and pushing the thread offtopic. If you really have to talk about iway, create other thread for this purpose.

You and your guild are a minority. As I stated in my post it may not be everyone but it is a lot of people. Point taken on the off-topic-ness though. My apologizies.

There are wayyy more unconstructive posts than mine though like the "lol guys anet might not recognize sarcasm111". Come on, I agree that ANet made some horrible mistakes with HA but taking a low blow at them like that is uncalled for...

Quote:

Originally Posted by phasola

NOT. It's true that i didn't really enjoy figthing IWAY, but IWAY & B spike > the current HA anytime.

Then you've learned your lesson. Complain about IWAY and B-spike and anet hands you something even worse. Now if you didn't complain and want 8v8 back then thats great. We're on the same boat then....

Quote:

Originally Posted by caffine addict

if alters where like alliance battles and you had to stay in a large group in the center, i see sig of judgement/healing spring monks winning for a long time

I don't see them winning. Not with searing flames around at least... I like the alliance battle capping idea a lot...

Raising · Dec 28, 2006, 03:36 AM // 03:36

8v8 & new maps would make my whole guild go back from wow.

other problem is new players discrimination due to the fact that they need all 3 chapters to have access to needed skills and most only got 1 or 2 chapters..

Gimme Money Plzkthx · Dec 28, 2006, 03:55 AM // 03:55

Then they should buy the other 1 or 2 chapters. Life isn't fair, QQ.

Raising · Dec 28, 2006, 04:01 AM // 04:01

what about when there's 5~chapters, all new players that want to pvp will never have a chance at it.

Bacon Goes Monk · Dec 28, 2006, 04:15 AM // 04:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raising

what about when there's 5~chapters, all new players that want to pvp will never have a chance at it.

GW won't last 5 chapters.

If it does, then... Q_Q

Gimme Money Plzkthx · Dec 28, 2006, 04:19 AM // 04:19

I think GW actually will last 5 chapters. But, like Bacon said, they can go cry about it. You don't wanna be serious about the game, don't PvP. If you're angry because you can't get into a PvP group because you don't have the chapters but you really want to, well damn that just sucks. Life isn't fair, deal with it. If you would like to try and make it overly fair as seems the trend for society, go here http://www.democrats.org/

lishi · Dec 28, 2006, 04:30 AM // 04:30

unless is some very specific buil you dont need all chapter, i remember until my sb/infuse bar was 100% faction( sometime i was using healing whisper instead of dwayna or other but rarely)

Shane Postus · Dec 28, 2006, 04:36 AM // 04:36

Ok... i have a few ideas. and by the way, i have not read through all 15 pages of suggestion so im sorry if im reiterating.

1. 8v8 is the way to go i think, if not by popular opinion than just in terms of increasing competition. 8v8 has "potential" for more strategy. there are flaws like iway and such, but with those tweaked then we could have a great arena with many more possibilities that 6v6.

2. Rank discrimination is a problem. I like what someone on page 1 said and make seperate districts for different ranks. But, obviously you cant change in between the districts like you can now. if you're rank 1 you only play with other rank 1's... or something along those lines.

3. Make HA more... lucrative if you will. Having HA tournaments open to everyone at all times. For example, the first 40 (any number will work) teams will be randomly assigned to battle in an organized tournament. Each team pays X amount of gold. the more you win the more you get back. Like a %, so if you win 1 battle you get 30% back, 2 battles 60%, 3 battles 90%, 4 battles 120%... the numbers dont work too well here but thats what mathematicians are for.

The idea is here.

4. We have a bunch of arenas that increase the # of players per team and objectives, but about a new arena. An arena that increases the amount of SKILLS you can bring. like a 6v6 arena, but everyone can have 10 skill equipped. this one is pretty far fetched as it would mess with your very balanced system, but i think it would be fun to see what people can come up with if they have 2 more slots open. Try it out maybe.

Thats all i have to say.

Gimme Money Plzkthx · Dec 28, 2006, 05:10 AM // 05:10

There is a poll now. Vote. GOGOGO!!!!

shardfenix · Dec 28, 2006, 07:04 AM // 07:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by manitoba1073

easy way to fix HA,

ADD ENVIROMENTAL EFFECTS.

Domain of Imba
Environment Effect
For every second you have Searing Flames on your skillbar, you lose 1 fame.

I would like to point out that Guildwars.com said they changed it to 6v6 to encourage "more variation in builds." How does less possibilities = more variation?

Zui · Dec 28, 2006, 07:33 AM // 07:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by shardfenix

Domain of Imba
Environment Effect
For every second you have Searing Flames on your skillbar, you lose 1 fame.

I would like to point out that Guildwars.com said they changed it to 6v6 to encourage "more variation in builds." How does less possibilities = more variation?

Less Blood Spike. Less IWAY. Less cookie cutter charactar templates that 95%+ of players were running exactly like everyone else ran them, like CG Rangers, Warders, SB/Infusers, RC/Prots, WoH Monks, Blood Spikers, IWAY Warriors, Oath Trappers... Need I go on?

Seriously, during the 6 vs 6 weekend there was quite a bit of variety. If 6 vs 6 continued on the path that it started out on, with good players who weren't GvGing running builds that kill things and have interrupts, I think 6 vs 6 would be a much nicer place than it is now. You'd probably even have 5+ american districts at primetime, too. But, because the end objective in Heroes' Ascent rewards alot of defense(even if it doesn't let you hold for very long not that paragons aren't super imbalanced), and teams want to at least try to win and hold halls for a chance at the gold loot like req 13 death grim cestas with 19% curses HSR and +5 al while enchanted(yeah, I got one of theese gems yesterday, well I get somthing this 'good' and so does everyone else most of the time they win halls...). You also have the noob factor of "more and defense we wont loose when we ball up vs searing flames//sandstorm1!1"

Quite honestly, I think if they just make the objectives and maps suck less, that 6 vs 6, 7 vs 7, 8 vs 8, or whatever they put in will work, and be very enjoyable to play for everyone. Party size isn't going to matter when the maps and objectives suck and reward everyone running the same skills. Seriously, if you had to make the perfect build for 24 man halls(theoretical), you'd pack in as much defense as possible, just enough offense to get a kill, and the rest would be shutdown/interrupts/skills you need to cap or win on other maps like Relic Runs. You wouldn't include 20 offensive skills just because it wins matches faster. You're not rewarded for killing, you're rewarded with more fame, gold items and sigils for staying alive. People try to do the same thing now. They did the same thing in 8 vs 8. This is why we need maps with new objectives/new maps entirely, and rotating objectives in the hall of heroes(which encompases all of the objectives on previous maps). Bye bye to running a build with nothing that helps you on relic runs because you want to pack more defense. Bye bye packing as much defense as you can and skimping on offense, because you care more about staying alive.

I'm going to stop typing now, since it's 2:30 am and I'm just rambling on...

l Alucard l · Dec 28, 2006, 07:52 AM // 07:52

- 8v8

More or less I stopped playing GW because the 6v6 ruined my fun =] but I started playing again and all I see in HA is pure offense or pure defense. Seeing 6 Ele's ball up and just heal area is not fun IMO (atleast the /resign command is put to some use :/) really i think the larger portion of active pvp players (about 90%) want 8v8 back. I know alot of players that totally quit HA because of the change. 6v6 also ruins the chance of more unique builds. Besides the pure defense/offense the general balance runs 2 monks which leaves 4 spots for variety :/. Please bring back 8v8 woot! =]